My first inclination was to make the chat room for subscribed (paying) members only, but there are less than 30 of you.
I saw this in the technical forum and I was really surprised by it. John has posted a few times how much money he's put into these boards to keep them going so far, and it's a lot. I just wanted to remind people who haven't contributed, especially long time members, to take a minute and think about how much this message board has contributed to your fitness goals. If you could put a monetary value on it, how much would the resources and encouragement here be worth to you? If people gave even a small fraction of that, the benefit would go back to the whole community here. A lot of people spend a lot of money on their fitness in gym memberships, equipment, supplements, etc. Just because this forum is available for free doesn't mean it costs nothing to run. I really hope that everyone will seriously consider contributing something, even if it's just a little bit.

I'm sure some people will think I'm a jerk for posting this, but I think it's important enough that it deserves to be said. I know this is OT, too, but I wanted to post it somewhere that guests could see it, too, since they typically outnumber the register users online 2:1.

Also, since he's brought the bottom line donation level down, it's only $10. $10 on the ole' credit card is pretty easy for almost anybody to float, since that's just a fast food meal and a case of cheap beer, or less than a night at the movies (much less!)

I'm a fairly frequent member to a few places and this is the only one I've donated to recently. It can be difficult to voluntarily pay for something that you don't have to, but if anybody considers JSF, at the very least, an important site to them, then you might consider dropping a humble bit of change into the change dish. ;) Part of my motivation was that JSF has an obvious human side to it. A site that's run by a team or with a huge budget I feel less like the money will be appreciated, but John clearly appreciates the donations here.

Anybody reading this though - it's not a guilt trip - just something to think about :tu:

Totally agree guys. The benefits I've received far outweigh the paltry donation. Anyway, if you're like me and eating less or eating out less, you should have more discretionary income anyway! :D I understand if the newbies or casual observers aren't willing to contribute yet (and I'm glad that the site is still free so they can check in from time to time and hopefully one day make the decision to change. After all, if this was a "pay" site, I never would have seen it and may have never been motivated to make a change.) but all of us who check in almost everyday should help out if we're able to. And I would assume that most people (unless you're using a school or library account) who visit can afford internet access, which is not a bare necessity of life, and would have a couple of extra bucks to kick in to help out.

I agree as well. I tried donating last week but my stupid Paypal account won't let me send any more funds until I add another bank account, so I'm going to either do that this weekend or just send a money order.

$10, $25, $50, whatever the case may be, is a small price to pay for everything this site has done for me. I will admit however that I am going to donate a certain amount with the expectations of putting a good amount of money more towards the JSF merchandise when it becomes available.

:tu:

I will admit however that I am going to donate a certain amount with the expectations of putting a good amount of money more towards the JSF merchandise when it becomes available.
I know a lot of people are excited about the merchandise and I am too. When you buy it, though, a lot of that money is going into producing the product, the materials, the cut the printing place will charge and then distribution costs and overhead.

When you donate money directly, though, it all goes towards the community.

I know a lot of people are excited about the merchandise and I am too. When you buy it, though, a lot of that money is going into producing the product, the materials, the cut the printing place will charge and then distribution costs and overhead.

When you donate money directly, though, it all goes towards the community.

I know, I would donate sooner than I would buy merchandise for that reason alone. However, I will be doing both.

I agree as well. I tried donating last week but my stupid Paypal account won't let me send any more funds until I add another bank account, so I'm going to either do that this weekend or just send a money order.

$10, $25, $50, whatever the case may be, is a small price to pay for everything this site has done for me. I will admit however that I am going to donate a certain amount with the expectations of putting a good amount of money more towards the JSF merchandise when it becomes available.

:tu:

I think this is a VERY fair and important point. Honestly guys, Paypal is not exactly regarded very highly all the time. It's a real pain in the butt.

I was not aware that there were other forms of donating to JSF until reading this post and then checking the Donations thread just now. Well I just got a new box of checks in from my bank (sorry to get off topic but Sun Trust stinks!), so I need to send something to John's PO Box. :)

I know, I would donate sooner than I would buy merchandise for that reason alone. However, I will be doing both.
Me too. I'll buy a coffee mug or a hat for sure. I just hope that John can use a real shopping cart instead of Pay Pal. :)

Income is not the issue. There are literally dozens of ways I could spend or donate $10-$50 without reducing my quality of life. However, I have not heard John ask for donations to keep the site going, nor would I use any of the disk space incentives for people who donate. I can understand that requiring large amounts of disk space can be expensive.

If john is saying he cannot (or will not) keep the site going without more donations, I will donate. Or, if John specifically asks for donations to offset his expenses I will donate. This site really is wonderful and I have gotten a huge amount out of it.

I recognize, (at least in part since I know very little about maintaining web sites), how much effort John has put into this and I am certainly not ungrateful. If John asks me for money as compensation, that is fine, I would understand and I would be happy to oblige. He has not done so, but I would not begrudge him if he did. Perhaps he would like to suggest a charity of his choice I could give to instead?

Otherwise I will give to other charities that also have an impact in my life.

As far as donating money goes, I am hesitant to do it since I'm in Europe, and reluctant when it comes to payment over the internet via companies/sites that I do not know about. I could post the money, but I'm not really trusting when it comes to the post office either.

As far as helping out goes, I'd like to believe that I do make a difference by answering questions and taking the time to help people out. I am not a casual observer, which means I am giving something back to the site, even if it isn't cash.

If I'm not mistaken, even though it has cost John a lot of money and spare time, I think he's extremely happy about what this site has become, and has derived great pleasure from it. Also, without it I doubt that he'd ever change his profession, and if that can make him as happy as it seems from some of his updates and threads in the forums, I believe the money he put in are invested, and not wasted.

Having said that, I'm not saying I won't pay ever. Just that I don't want to right now, and don't feel bad about it.

However, I have not heard John ask for donations to keep the site going

You mean besides the big green, stickied banner at the top of the forums?

However, I have not heard John ask for donations to keep the site going,

If john is saying he cannot (or will not) keep the site going without more donations, I will donate. Or, if John specifically asks for donations to offset his expenses I will donate.

If John asks me for money as compensation, that is fine, I would understand and I would be happy to oblige. He has not done so, but I would not begrudge him if he did.


ummm....Did you see this?

I appreciate all the constructive feedback and I also appreciate all your generous support. I wish it were not so, but I simply can no longer keep the site afloat by myself.

Thanks,
__________________
John Stone

Emphasis added. Or this?

The only problem is I can't afford to do it by myself anymore. I wish I could!
__________________
John Stone


Donation Thread (http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/showthread.php?t=9507&highlight=donation)

When I first noticed the possibility for donating, I also considered that I didn't need to donate. I am getting no additional benefit from donating that I wouldn't have gotten just from being a guest.

I also refused to be guilted into donating. I think it's horrible that some visitors may feel inadequate because they have not donated. This has been a very welcoming site, and it would be sad to see it change.

When I finally decided to donate, it was by thinking about the value that this site has given me. John has made a huge investment in this site, and had he not been so generous to share it with all of us, I would not have been at the comfortable point with fitness as I am presently. I would have missed out on a tremendous amount of growth and learning by not being a part of this community.

NEdge, I'm sorry that you missed the parts where John talked about how much of his own money he's put into the site, and how it's impossible to do that anymore. I'm sorry that you're thinking about what additional benefits you'll get from putting up some cash, rather than just quantifying the benefits you have already received.

Personally, I would have been deeply offended if John asked me to donate. I certainly am glad that he's left it as a personal choice and has not taken away benefits from people who have not donated.

There are many reasons people may choose for not donating, and I respect them all, but don't pretend that you haven't been asked just because your privileges have not been taken away.

ummm....Did you see this?



Emphasis added. Or this?




Donation Thread (http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/showthread.php?t=9507&highlight=donation)

Hmm, I guess either my memory misled me or I got a different impression from a discussion a while back. I don't remember reading anything to the effect of 'I need support or this site will be closed'. My bad.


QUOTE:Personally, I would have been deeply offended if John asked me to donate. I certainly am glad that he's left it as a personal choice and has not taken away benefits from people who have not donated.

But in effect he has asked you to donate. The wording in his message is much stronger than I remember it. I interpreted his message initially as 'this site continues to require more and more resources and for those of you who would like to have more disk space and such, I would appreciate a contribution'. I guess that is not really the case.

How much does it cost?
http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/showthread.php?t=9507

Since you asked...

Over the past two years I've shelled out over $15,000 of my own money (servers, hardware, software, bandwidth, co-lo charges and so on) keeping the main site and the forums running, and I've spent most of my free time on countless nights and weekends working on the main site & the forums, answering emails, posting and trying to help others. All of this I was - and still am - happy to do. It's a labor of love. The only problem is I can't afford to do it by myself anymore. I wish I could!

This is a very interesting thread.

People go to Starbucks, they pick up a cup of coffee. The coffee has many items that go into it ... beans are grown, harvested, roasted, packed, shipped, ground, brewed ... and you give them your money and receive the coffee. Or you go to the local store and I have yet to see someone say, "Well, bread used to be 5 cents so I refuse to pay the $1." If someone wants bread, they get bread.

Services are no different. People who have issues with money want to lay that responsibility on others, so something like a service that is intangible is an easy way to justify this. The fact is, there is nothing wrong with providing a service and there is nothing wrong with asking for money for it. There are plenty of sites that are pay-per-access, and this site happens to benefit visitors by being 100% free.

You are getting a free cup of coffee. John has put a tip box on the counter to keep things going and offered to add some flavoring and cream if you so desire.

Whether people feel inadequate is their own issue to deal with. As Knubb stated, if you don't want to give, then don't give. Don't feel guilty about it - no one is making you feel inadequate or guilty. That is your choice as a person. If you feel guilty, then there has to be a reason - perhaps because you do see the value and are taking advantage of it rather than returning the value.

I have people all of the time tell me my coaching is overpriced. I agree with them! For them, it is over priced because it is only worth the value they perceive, and if they perceive "expensive" then it is. No need to convince them otherwise. There are others who see the value and invest, and for them it is not overpriced.

This is the same situation ... it is simply a question of value and you as the end user have every right to decide what value you place on being here.

Understand there are many ways to give value back, as have been mentioned in this thread. You can tithe your advice, your time, and help out in many ways. The fact that there is an option for money is great, and the fact that there is cause for debate simply shows how many people in today's society are uncomfortable with money.

It's not a surprise. Our society revolves around these concepts.

"Money is the root of all evil." (I would argue that love of money is)
"Filthy rich." (interesting, some of the greatest charitable organizations were made possible due to the wealthy being able to contribute)
"Piggy bank." (so our money has to be kept in a dirty place?)

We're told not to accept money from strangers, but taught that it is not polite to expect payment from friends. Who does that leave? How does the economy stay afloat?

Folks, if you see value in this site, share that value. It may be with money, it may be with your participation, it may be other ways. If you don't find value, don't share it. No one is here to judge you, and if they are, that's their decision/choice/issue, not yours. Don't waste your time worrying about the rest of the world, be comfortable with YOU because you can't please everyone.

My $1 (inflation).

Jeremy

http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/showthread.php?t=9507

Sorry - I edited my thread and accidentially removed that line.

So, how much does John need? 30 people at $50 is $1500. Is that enough, what about $5000? It sounds like John is suggesting he is doing to get some help in admin for the site. That would be good for freeing up his personal time.

OK, well thanks for bringing the issue up again, I will figure out how much I would like to donate.

As far as helping out goes, I'd like to believe that I do make a difference by answering questions and taking the time to help people out. I am not a casual observer, which means I am giving something back to the site, even if it isn't cash.
I totally agree with you, Knubb. There are a lot of people here who give back to this community in knowledge and participation. That's an extremely important contribution, too, and I don't want you to think that I was trying to diminsh it's value by starting this thread.

Did he ask me to donate? I don't remember any more. I do remember being a little put off the first time donations was mentioned. If I can get this for free, why should I bother paying for it? Once I realized that I was free to choose not to donate, then it suddenly sounded like a good idea to contribute.

One of these days, Jeremy, I'm going to have to ask you how much you charge for your coaching. I think I've learned something from almost every one of your posts.

I totally agree with you, Knubb. There are a lot of people here who give back to this community in knowledge and participation. That's an extremely important contribution, too, and I don't want you to think that I was trying to diminsh it's value by starting this thread.
Didn't think so either. I just shared my views as a (yet) non-paying regular. I like this thread, and I think it's great that you can donate. I think it's wonderful that people are helping John with the finances.

As I've said to John himself too, I probably will donate. In time though, in time.

I donated not because John was asking for donations nor did I donate because I felt pressured. My husband is a network analyst and often our friends take advantage of that and he is fixing computers all the time. I donated becuase I value the opinions, food journals, tips, and encouragement I get from other members (paying and non-paying) of this site. Just as it has been said several times, it is worth what you value it to be. Just be advised that if John can't continue to pay for these expenses out of his own pocket then it is possible this website will cease to exist and all will have lost whatever value they have in this site. You do not have to be rich to give up a cup of coffee, bottled water, or whatever your drink of choice may be.

Those worried about their credit card on the net, get an account with a lender like mbna.com. I have used their one-time use numbers (and you can set a limit on it) countless times in the past couple of years. It's a god-send, and I have no qualms about buying anything from anybody, because my master number is unavailable to them. They get just the one number I give them, with a set limit :) It's sweet!

As far as helping out goes, I'd like to believe that I do make a difference by answering questions and taking the time to help people out.John has said as much, that he appreciates helpful members here trying to offer assistance to others. :nod:I also refused to be guilted into donating. I think it's horrible that some visitors may feel inadequate because they have not donated. Yeah I'd agree there! I never felt guilted into it and I hope that nobody would feel guilted into it by reading this thread either.So, how much does John need? 30 people at $50 is $1500. Is that enough, what about $5000?He's clearly the one to ask for that, but I'd guess that he doesn't have a set limit per se, but anything is helpful. The more resources at his disposal, the more he can do with the site. Imagine if he had enough money to quit his job and work on his business full time? The content delivered our way would surely increase!

Wow, all you guys donated out of generosity and the goodness of your hearts? Boy, am I off base!

I just donated to get this blinged-out awesomeness next to my name!

I mean, seriously, look up a few inches and check it out. I don't care who you are, you can't say that's anything other than totally sweet.

If I wanted a bar of silver half the size of my head in real life, it would cost me a lot more than John's price. And it was definitely worth it :tucool:

This site is the binder in which all the knowledge I'd accumulated became organized. I give some time to it. And I gave some cash to it. I'd have felt as though I were devaluing a very important intangible had I not given because of what I've learned here. No trainer could have done this for me; no one person could have given me the independence and self-confidence in my own ability to change myself that I've learned here through reading posts and listening to the opinions of the other JSF players. Self-realizations of this nature mean more to me than money could ever buy. Because of that, I found $50 to be moot - and I'd have given more, but my allowance is only so much. Putting a price tag on the intangible isn't so easy, as this thread clearly demonstrates. I require no justification from members who have or have not donated. My posts won't change. And I try not to judge people. A donation or lack thereof will not change my opinion or how I interact with any of the participants of this site.

I'm just kickin' in my nickel's worth on the subject. It simple to assess what you've gained from being here versus what you've given back. It's a personal evaluation each person can easily make. I'm comfortable with my existence here. Some other folks here don't seem to be, though their angst is unfounded. The community is free, has been, and I believe it always will be. That in and of itself should clear your consciences. This site wouldn't be here as-is if its original intent wasn't being met.

If I wanted a bar of silver half the size of my head in real life, it would cost me a lot more than John's price. And it was definitely worth it :tucool:I bought the less expensive bar of chalk :D

This site is the binder in which all the knowledge I'd accumulated became organized.

That is classic, man. My thoughts exactly.

I plan on donating as soon as I get caught back up on my bills... Last month, I made my first late credit payment of my life because I couldn't even afford to pay it.

Christmas bonus and taxes are coming up... John will see some cash coming from my way once that happens.

On that note, I have to thank everyone here that has given me feedback in the past, and also to John for the motivational pictures.

Before I came to this site, I was 32 pounds heavier and really didn't care until I saw that I could be much healthier.

Soon, I'll have a donator tag!

Wow, all you guys donated out of generosity and the goodness of your hearts? Boy, am I off base!

I just donated to get this blinged-out awesomeness next to my name!

I mean, seriously, look up a few inches and check it out. I don't care who you are, you can't say that's anything other than totally sweet.

If I wanted a bar of silver half the size of my head in real life, it would cost me a lot more than John's price. And it was definitely worth it :tucool:


shit yah thats why I did it. $$ well spent, besides i would just spend that ten bucks on something stupid like food and water :lol:

I totally agree with you, Knubb. There are a lot of people here who give back to this community in knowledge and participation. That's an extremely important contribution, too, and I don't want you to think that I was trying to diminsh it's value by starting this thread.
I think this is a very fair point. I have thought of this recently actually, before this thread was started. Guys like Jeremy and SwoleCat essentially do donate even if they don't give cash money. Countless times both of these guys are giving away free what they normally charge for.

Of course there is the argument that they could potentially become compensated, by meeting future clients here. I actually hope that is the case, as both of them (and others of course) are almost TOO giving in my opinion. Sometimes I feel downright guilty about getting such valuable info from these guys for free.

ill buy some lifting gloves if john offers them

Sometimes I feel downright guilty about getting such valuable info from these guys for free.

:lol: Reread Jeremy's post.

This doesn't just apply to the so-called experts. I was feeling guilty about taking what Knubb and Skoorb and a whole handful of others are giving for free as well.

I felt a little embarrassed by the plaque by my head :o I think it glows in the dark :lol: But I guess it's useful as a movtivator to others. I really value this site. I have learned more about my health and worked out regularly more often than I have in many many years since I have been on this site about 3 months now. :bb: Donating was a complete pleasure -- giving back when you have been given so much. :claphigh:

John's been totally gracious. Until this thread, I hads no idea he had spent so much money. What a generous man! :nod:

Too giving?

That is GREAT to hear, because it lets me know what to expect.

See, when I made the decision to become an entrepeneur, I knew that I did not have the experience or all of the knowledge or skills to succeed by myself - I would have to learn from others. So I sought mentors who were successful and doing well so that I could learn from them.

And what did I find? EVERY mentor ... not one, not a few, but EVERY mentor I chose and worked with taught me that the MOST IMPORTANT method to succeed is to focus on helping others - by giving - by sharing. There is a famous quote, that if you help enough people get what they want, you will be closer to what you want.

There is no way we could be giving too much. And it's not about "compensation" with cash. See, life is about exchange of value. When someone hires me, it is because they are trading money for my coaching. They haven't really lost anything, if it is a true value exchange.

So when I share here, I receive as well - moreso than you can imagine. I create relationships and connections. I learn from every client I coach. I learn from people posting here. I learn from all of you in many different ways.

And it really isn't a case of giving away what I normally charge for! There is no way I could possibly convey in words on a forum the same connection that I create with my clients. A coaching session is a two-way interaction that is about me and the person I am coaching, and through that process I am able to provide far more value than I could through this medium because we connect at a more intimate level. Ultimately, we all have our own unique experiences. My CDs and book create more value than my stream-of-consciousness here because I organize them into focused topics .... my coaching creates yet more value because it becomes a focus on you, rather than a focus "in general" ... so as you move closer to the source, the terms of the value exchange also change.

You see, some people are fine with simply collecting posts and putting them in a folder. That is great. Others want to have something organized, like an e-Book. Others want to HEAR the words spoken - I can't tell you how many people who bought my book and listened to the Become the Journey CD shared how even though some of the material overlapped, HEARING me share it made a difference and created an "ah-hah" they didn't experience when reading the book. Imagine taking that now and making it not a one-way monologue on a CD, but a two-way dialogue on the phone. Then take that to the interpersonal connection possible at a seminar or in-person coaching session ... my point is simply that sharing here is a privilege and cannot be compared with other ways I connect with people, so I am very happy to do so ... after all, you deserve to receive the information, and I am rewarded by everything all of you in the community share ... community ... common unity ...

Too giving, indeed! :)

Take care, going to bed now. Just had an AWESOME 2-hour seminar about getting healthy for the holidays ... tomorrow I'll edit/burn it to CD and we'll go from there!

I appreciate you all!

Jeremy

I think this is a very fair point. I have thought of this recently actually, before this thread was started. Guys like Jeremy and SwoleCat essentially do donate even if they don't give cash money. Countless times both of these guys are giving away free what they normally charge for.

Of course there is the argument that they could potentially become compensated, by meeting future clients here. I actually hope that is the case, as both of them (and others of course) are almost TOO giving in my opinion. Sometimes I feel downright guilty about getting such valuable info from these guys for free.

Jeremy (and all) -- I didn't mean anything bad by "too giving." It was actually a compliment. You are right, I suppose nobody can really be too giving. Well, unless you are allowing yourself to get used and treated really poorly. I don't see you or SwoleCat doing that though.

I don't know what you meant by "now I know what to expect," but I was just trying to show my appreciation to those like you who are so generous. I know it's hard to tell through chat/forums/internet what emotion someone had (happy or sarcastic, mad, irritated, whatever), but it sounded like I irritated you; not my intention at all, quite the opposite really.

Hahah! No, by "now I know what to expect..." I meant that the universe tends to reward us for our actions, so if you feel I have a giving nature, I can expect great returns ... that is all. It did sound a bit crass on this Internet thingy, but wasn't meant out of irritation at all! I love what you have to share and what you said, wasn't disagreeing at all ... only taking the thought and running with it!

I appreciate you.

Jeremy

Jeremy (and all) -- I didn't mean anything bad by "too giving." It was actually a compliment. You are right, I suppose nobody can really be too giving. Well, unless you are allowing yourself to get used and treated really poorly. I don't see you or SwoleCat doing that though.

I don't know what you meant by "now I know what to expect," but I was just trying to show my appreciation to those like you who are so generous. I know it's hard to tell through chat/forums/internet what emotion someone had (happy or sarcastic, mad, irritated, whatever), but it sounded like I irritated you; not my intention at all, quite the opposite really.

Hahah! No, by "now I know what to expect..." I meant that the universe tends to reward us for our actions, so if you feel I have a giving nature, I can expect great returns ... that is all. It did sound a bit crass on this Internet thingy, but wasn't meant out of irritation at all! I love what you have to share and what you said, wasn't disagreeing at all ... only taking the thought and running with it!

I appreciate you.

Jeremy
Oh you are so right too -- I think what goes around comes around, in one form or another, and in my experience it usually comes back around 10-fold (you'll probably recall Bill Phillips discussing this in his talk about the universal law of reciprocation). And under that theory (or logic) you are going to be very wealthy some day, be it in money or something else.

What else can I say but you rock Jeremy!!!!

(glad you don't think I'm a jerk, lol!!!)

I gave because I have benefited from this site from day one and would miss it if it goes under. The motivation I get is priceless and is definitely helping me to achieve my goals. :bb:

I gave because I have benefited from this site from day one and would miss it if it goes under. The motivation I get is priceless and is definitely helping me to achieve my goals.

I completely agree. Since I found this site it has served as a valuable informaiton source and an invaluable motivational source. So many times I have thought about skipping the gym, then come to the site and decided....no, I CAN DO IT...

Worth every penny...and thanks again John, I had no idea it cost so much to run.

I totally agree. My gold tag is kicking and I love it. :p



I just donated to get this blinged-out awesomeness next to my name!

I mean, seriously, look up a few inches and check it out. I don't care who you are, you can't say that's anything other than totally sweet.



I donated because I was dying to from the beginning. Ever since I first felt the control that comes from losing weight with a plan in a healthy way. I knew I could do it and that it was just a matter of time. And it was John who made me realize this with his website, when I first saw it a week before this forum was created. I felt amazing gratitude toward him which is weird when you've never met someone. Being able to help John in return with his goals is why I donated. I am not paying for a service, I am helping someone who helped me far more.

Jeremy, regarding your posts, BRAVO!!!! :claplow: :claplow:

Thanks, I appreciate you and your kind words!

Also, since this is the donate thread ... LOL ... let me just add that I have a series of CDs out. I have them available in MP3 download format, including cover art, so that you can burn your own CDs from them (And print the label to stick on top). As with the e-Book, 60% of net proceeds go to John Stone Fitness. The pages each have a sample track for you to listen to:

Become the Journey CD (http://www.becomethejourney.com/aff.php?id=johnstone&link=5)
The 5 Keys to Healthy Eating (http://www.becomethejourney.com/aff.php?id=johnstone&link=7)
Maximize Your Cardio (http://www.becomethejourney.com/aff.php?id=johnstone&link=6)
Resistance to Overcome (http://www.becomethejourney.com/aff.php?id=johnstone&link=8)

-- Jeremy

I totally agree. My gold tag is kicking and I love it. :p



I donated because I was dying to from the beginning. Ever since I first felt the control that comes from losing weight with a plan in a healthy way. I knew I could do it and that it was just a matter of time. And it was John who made me realize this with his website, when I first saw it a week before this forum was created. I felt amazing gratitude toward him which is weird when you've never met someone. Being able to help John in return with his goals is why I donated. I am not paying for a service, I am helping someone who helped me far more.

Jeremy, regarding your posts, BRAVO!!!! :claplow: :claplow:

I urge every one of you to look at your before picture, compare it to your after picture, and ask yourself one simple thing...

"When i started out and i looked like my before picture, if someone had shown me the after picture and said to me "For just $10 i can make you look like this" would i have paid ?"

Thats all there is to it. :nod:

Thanks John. Any way i can help, i will.

Oh, and i live in Europe, and had no problem donating. Living in Europe shouldn't cause any more problems then living in the US. Don't let that be a factor in your descision.