I just found some Hydroxicut i had left over from a previous experience.

What's your opinion on using it, along with a good diet, cardio and lifting plan, all geared towards fat loss?

Obveously the stupid claims they make about sitting on your arse losing weight this stuff are bs, but are there any negative effects to using it? does it hurt your muscle gains? does it counter effect anything else?

I hadn't planned to use any this time around, but as i have them here i was wondering if it was worth while.

Is it the OLD Hydroxicut? If so, it's BAD for you (ephedrine), so feel fee to send me the pills, I'll put em to good use :) j/k

I use a cheap fat burner each day, I don't see how it can hurt with fat loss as long as you are eating right. Follow the directions on the bottle some say to stop using after a few weeks then go back on it.

They are unnecessary. The effects of hard work in the gym (both lifting weights and doing cardio) along with a clean diet that places you in a caloric deficit far outweigh the effects of Ephedra. Perhaps more importantly, there are no inherent risks associated with proper exercise and diet in order to lose weight (despite the hyper that goes overboard, the same cannot be said for products using Ephedra).

I wouldn't bother using it. You'll get your results from your hard work and diet; a "Fatloss pill" may help to a certain extent, but not the extent that I would recommend their usage.

(For the record, I am by no means an Ephedra "hater." I'm just a guy that has tried cutting both ways and have watched several of my peers use Ephedra with less than stellar results).

I used an ECA stack for 6 months (on and off) and I got amazing results. But I also had some nasty side effects, so I'm not going to be using it again. I wouldn't day there are any major risks to using ephedrine, as long you do it smart.

The only thing is, because it does give you a bit of help losing the fat, when you go off of it, you have to be stricter on how you eat and work out. I wasn't, and gained it all back.

What side effects have you guys had?

I have been using an ECA (ephedrafree) for about 2 months.

Upsides:

1. Able to stay awake longer.
2. Not as tired.
3. Seem to have more energy.
4. Feel need to drink more water, and do so.
5. Seem to lose a little extra weight when im on them, even with the extra h20.

Downsides:

1. I hate pills
2. They smell, make your breath smell, taste like crap.
3. Get sick nasty feeling if i dont eat enough with them

Anyway, just my 2cents...

What side effects have you guys had?

I have been using an ECA (ephedrafree) for about 2 months.

CHRIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It isnt an ECA stack if there is no E in it! What product are you using? Does it even have A in it?

anyways, back to the question regarding Opinions On Fatburnerzzzz....

Im not a first-hand expert on ECA's because I personally dont use them, but Ive read up enough on them and know that any of the new fat burner products on the market without ephedrine, ephedrine-HCL, etc, are a waste of money.

an easy way to see what happens with your ECA stack is to measure your resting heart rate after sitting relaxed, doing nothing, for about 10 minutes. then, take your ECA with some water. wait an hour for it to "kick in" and measure your heart rate again. any change? with ephedra, you would see a big change!

another way to check is to go get your RMR/BMR calculated with a BodyGem unit one morning, take your ECA, then get it checked again an hour later.

<opinion>
Personally, ECAs(ephedrine-based or ephedra-free) are really a waste of time. The main component of any program is cardio+lifting+diet. This is what creates the BULK of your caloric deficit to drop fat. ECAs only add a small percentage. They might help you lost an extra half pound to 3/4 pound a week.... But at what cost? Well, you drop $$$ on them, and, some products can cause you harm in the longrun... No need to chance it bro!

Most times Ive seen people jump on the ECA stack to fix something else that is problematic in their transformation program, ie, not working out enough or doing their workout with proper intensity, not eating right, not getting enough sleep, not drinking enough water, etc. They use ECAs to compensate for another part of their plan that is lacking. If people have a plan that is 100% well rounded, from diet to cardio to lifting to sleep... They will achieve the results they seek, without fail. No need to choke down mystery ECA magic pills...

Success isnt found in a bottle, its found within YOU... You determine your success or failure, not a pill.

</opinion>

so the general opinion seems to be in line with what i decided this time around, they do help out assuming you have everything else in place, but prolly aren't worth bothering with considering the cost.

Given that i have these already and that i've experienced no side effects at all in the past, i think i probably will use them up, but not yet, i'll wait till the results start to slow a bit and use them as a short term kick start. I think i only have enough for a 2-3 week run anyway.

err ya

not sure what to say about the E-less ECA, from what I read at 2am when I bought it.

http://svtchris.no-ip.com/fit/Pills.JPG



Here is what i bought, i can post pics from the back when I get home if that will help...

I dont really want to use real Ephedra, im not a pill person at all, i will aviod asprin if i can, so taking these are a huge pain.....

If anyone can suggest a better/real supplement please do...


Thanks

why 325mg aspirin? anything more than 81mg stops protein synthesis or severely limits it

Ok,

I swear back in December john had something about taking a small amount of asprin on his site under the supplements section..

I looked cant find it now, but i thought he said he had used it to help.

Not 100% sure coulda been the hydrocodone i was on at the time, i dunno..

Anyway, for the 1st week or so I took 1 asprin b4 a workout. Pretty much gave up on that tho, those asprin are cheap and hella nasty.

Ok,

I swear back in December john had something about taking a small amount of asprin on his site under the supplements section..

I looked cant find it now, but i thought he said he had used it to help.

Not 100% sure coulda been the hydrocodone i was on at the time, i dunno..

Anyway, for the 1st week or so I took 1 asprin b4 a workout. Pretty much gave up on that tho, those asprin are cheap and hella nasty.
yes, he takes an 81mg aspirin, better known as childrens aspirin, to "thin the blood and help it get to the brown fat on his midsection"

check these urls out :: http://www.kinemed.net/files/131.pdf

and

http://molpharm.aspetjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/52/3/398

basically, too much aspirin, no muscle growth.

I'll come straight out and say it - "fat burners" in a bottle are just a huge waste of money - unless you enjoy padding someone else's wallet.

To begin with and ECA stack is composed of Ephedine, Caffine, and Aspirin; i.e. it is impossible to have an ephedra-freee ECA stack - no getting around that fact. There has been research to show that an ECA stack can assist in fat loss, but only in a limited role. On average proper use of an ECA stack may add an additional 1-2 lb fat loss over an 8-10 week period when following a diet and exercise routine. This is not much at all in real-world terms.

What cannot be argued is that there can be serious side effects from the use of such products: sleeplessnes, high blood pressure, irregular heart beat, etc. are just some of the possible side effects. Keep in mind that this is assuming the individual is healthly with no underlying health conditions.

The new batch of Ephedra-free fat burners are basiclly nothing more than overhyped caffine pills. Manufacturers, faced with law suits simply took out the ephedra and jacked up the dosage of caffine - to unhealthy levels - so people would get the same feelings. Additionally, many have included Citrus Aurantium (Bitter Orange) to the cocktail as well. This extract has not been studies extensively as a fat-burner and there is emerging evidence that it could do serious damage to the liver.

If you simply have to have something that you feel will give you a leg up in the fat loss department, drink a cup of green tea. Green tea has been show to have some thermogenic properties as well as appetite suppressing tendencies. A cup or 2 of green tea is acutally healthy for you as it contains many other beneficial antioxidants and mirconutrients.

In the end, there is simply no substitute for solid dietary habits and regular exercise.

A friend of mine is on heart medication because of fat burners. He is 30. Don't take them :mad:

I stopped taking the aspirin, BTW. Didn't do a thing for me and I also read that it inhibits muscle growth.

My opinion on fat burners is that you don't need them. All you need is a healthy diet, a good workout routine and dedication. I've personally never taken them, and I never will.

I agree with all of you.

I realized pretty quickly that the only real advantage behind the so called ECA i was taking, was the ability to stay awake longer.

Maybe you guys will have a better idea, but heres my day.

8am - wakeup
9am - 10am arrive at work
6-8pm - leave work
6-10pm - spend time with wife
10pm-1am - Workout (1-1.5 hour somewhere in there)
2-3am - go to sleep.


Im more of a night person, so the caffine has helped i think.


the stuff im taking currently has - 1415mg containing the stuff below:

yerba mate extract
green tea extract
caffeine
bitter orange extract

doesnt say how much of each...


I cant take black coffee, so should i just switch to caffeine pills ?

Thanks all..

Looks to me like you never get enought rest on that schedule :confused:

I agree with all of you.

I realized pretty quickly that the only real advantage behind the so called ECA i was taking, was the ability to stay awake longer.

Maybe you guys will have a better idea, but heres my day.

8am - wakeup
9am - 10am arrive at work
6-8pm - leave work
6-10pm - spend time with wife
10pm-1am - Workout (1-1.5 hour somewhere in there)
2-3am - go to sleep.


Im more of a night person, so the caffine has helped i think.


the stuff im taking currently has - 1415mg containing the stuff below:

yerba mate extract
green tea extract
caffeine
bitter orange extract

doesnt say how much of each...


I cant take black coffee, so should i just switch to caffeine pills ?

Thanks all..
chris, here is what i would do... drop the fake eca altogether. switch up to a proper multi-vitamin(not some junk ass centrum either!) and also supplement with green tea, either 6 cups a day OR green tea capsules. try to get between 700mg and 1gram a day of GT. it has fantastic antioxidant properties, will wake your butt up, and some people get a good metabolic increase from it. also... in a prior thread, you had concern over the little hump of blubber at the bottom of your abs. if at all humanly possible, id switch up your cardio/working out/etc to the MORNING, before work, on either an empty stomach OR after taking a whey-only shake, then following the workout with a whey+oatmeal or whey+dextrose shake. you will rev up your metabolism throughout the entire day, and burn off that problem fat that was pissing you off! plus, it leaves you more energy at night to "spend quality time wit da wife!!" if you get my drift. kick your metabolism into overdrive bro, switch up your day for a week or two, and let us know how your results change. i bet you see a KILLER improvement, limit muscle loss, but accelerate fat loss...


also, it looks like you only get 5 hours of sleep a night. you should really try to get more sleep, because thats when the body recouperates, rebuilds, and gets ready for your next day of activity. im not sure if your sleep is short because you workout right before hitting the sack, or if you just like to stay up, but if its a habit, try to fix that. for the LONGEST TIME i would stay up to 2 or 3am EVERY SINGLE NIGHT, get 4 or 4.5 hours of sleep, and roll into work, dog dead tired! that was before i started my fitness program and realized how important sleep is! hell, i even take another multi-vit before bed because thats when the body goes into overdrive burning fat, building muscle, etc... its also your LONGEST period of fasting if you eat every 3 hours during the day! gotta get that sleep to GROW!

Looks to me like you never get enought rest on that schedule :confused:
i completely agree with djerickd

sleep is very important... what do newborn babies do? they sleep a lot! why? because they are growing!

Babies only sleep when the sun is up. :(

Babies only sleep when the sun is up. :(
haha yes they do! mine is sleeping now in fact!

It sucks, but you have to get on a good schedule. Night Owls that get up @ 6AM don't do well. ;)

I sleep from 8PM-4AM

I would love to work out in the morning.

I have done it in the past (high school) Just cant get myself into the habbit of waking up the early everymorning.


Im going to make an effort to switch my shedule to an AM workout all next week, see how i do.

Try for something like this.


7am - wakeup
7:30-9:00 - Workout and cleanup
9:30-10 - get to work
10-6/7 - work
6/7-10pm - time at home
10pm - sleep....


that will be reeeeeeealy hard to get used to, but im gonna try next week

I have a 5k coming up this saturday, my goal is to run a sub 20:00min 5k.... so i wont even neeed to workout on sunday anyway..

About sleap. I just cant sleap more than 4-5 hours regardless what I do or try. If I go to bed early I will wake up in the middle of the night 4-5 hours later and will not be able to sleap anymore.

So it´s in fact very individualistic. How much you need to or can sleap. Not much you can do if your body refuse to sleap more than that. Unless you are prepared to use some sort of drug to help you sleap more. But that´s probably not a very good or healthy alternative. :(

Regards!

I would love to work out in the morning.

I have done it in the past (high school) Just cant get myself into the habbit of waking up the early everymorning.


Im going to make an effort to switch my shedule to an AM workout all next week, see how i do.

Try for something like this.


7am - wakeup
7:30-9:00 - Workout and cleanup
9:30-10 - get to work
10-6/7 - work
6/7-10pm - time at home
10pm - sleep....


that will be reeeeeeealy hard to get used to, but im gonna try next week

I have a 5k coming up this saturday, my goal is to run a sub 20:00min 5k.... so i wont even neeed to workout on sunday anyway..
i was never ever ever a morning person until i started lifting in the morning. now, i go to bed early enough that when i get up extra early (5:45am!) to lift, my body feels refreshed and ready to go!

some good info here thanks, unfortunatly there's also the usual "pills can't replace a good diet and workouts". I don't think anyone here is trying to replace any of those things, the thread was specificly titled "Opinions on Fatburners as part of fat loss program?".

There's several posts saying they don't really help that much and there's nothing better than a good diet and regular workouts.

Well i see that as a negative outlook, i could say the exact same thing using these words "fat burners can really help you get that extra boost when used on top of your regular activities".

In attempting to tell us how bad they are, you actually give me a good reason to use them :)

So,

Looks like im gonna drop the BS ECA and go with some caffeine supps.

Anyone have a brand/type to recommend?


Would it hurt any to add some creatine to my diet?
Ive read creatine will help grow muscle which doesnt really match-up with the "cutting" im trying to do.


Honestly I dont care what my weight is, i just want to lose my stomach and build some decent arms...

Thanks all

So,

Looks like im gonna drop the BS ECA and go with some caffeine supps.

Anyone have a brand/type to recommend?


Would it hurt any to add some creatine to my diet?
Ive read creatine will help grow muscle which doesnt really match-up with the "cutting" im trying to do.


Honestly I dont care what my weight is, i just want to lose my stomach and build some decent arms...

Thanks all
forget caffeine pills, get Green Tea... they have caffeine in them but are better for you!

Might want to read this before taking putting that stuff into your body :

http://www.injuryboard.com/view.cfm/Topic=987

In December 2003, The U.S. Food and Drug Administration in cooperation with the Department of Health and Human Services announced their intention to publish a final rule stating that dietary supplements containing ephedrine alkaloids present an unreasonable risk of illness or injury. The rule would have the effect of banning the sale of these products as soon as it becomes effective, 60 days after publication (sometime in 2004).

About sleap. I just cant sleap more than 4-5 hours regardless what I do or try. If I go to bed early I will wake up in the middle of the night 4-5 hours later and will not be able to sleap anymore.

So it´s in fact very individualistic. How much you need to or can sleap. Not much you can do if your body refuse to sleap more than that. Unless you are prepared to use some sort of drug to help you sleap more. But that´s probably not a very good or healthy alternative. :(

Regards!
Just keep doing it. You've trained your body so poorly that it's gotten used to no sleep. You will eventually start to sleep more. It could also be a stress issue that keeps you from getting sleep. Or even a diet issue. Your body should comfortably sleep at least 7-8 hours.

fat burners are a great tool, they are not necessary, but they do definatly help. there are some really good ones, and not so good ones.

id make your own ECA stack with just ephedra and caffiene.. adding aspirin doesnt really do much, despite populat beleifs.

if at all possible, it would be best to usa a fat burner/stack when progress really tappers down.. trying to get down that last 2-5% BF or whatever.. you can play it really smart and get some quality results.

non ephedra/ephedrine stacks containing things like green tea extract have excellent thermogenic effectcs on the body, and equipped with the proper cardio, nutrtion.. you will notice results

Yerba mate is a good energy enhancer and it does contain some cafeeine (and other methylxanthines)

the FDA is a joke and has published nothing but utter BS in their reports on ephedra/ephedrine.

their "research" and "lab tests" show countless loop holes and lack of facts and proper data. it has been critized and absolutly been TORN apart by cardiologist, neurologists, doctors, and people alike with actually "know how"

(The none-Ephedra version)

I took 1/3 the recommended dosage for 3 weeks. It did work, but I noticed a few things that make me suspicious of it.


#1) I drink a lot of water, as anyone who works out should. But I noticed that after taking Hydroxycut, my urine was significantly darker that usual - you know, of you drink enough water, it's generally pretty clear...

#2) The bottle says it is mandatory to drink a lot of water. Hmmm.

#3) By week three, I was supposed to be taking 9 pills a day.

I think it's a purgative - like goldenseal is. Sorta like draino for your system. I don't think you're losing actual fat so much as water weight - it's forcing you to do something that you ought ot be doing anyway - hydrate!

If you drink 12 cups a water a day, you're going to lose some weight. Your body-being properly hydrated-isn't going to retain so much water. Plus, you're going to be up to 20% more aerobically efficient - which is a nice side effect - it's easier to burn fat.

So, I don't think the pill is really doing that much for me - plus, I'm a little worried about scorching my kidneys, or somehow otherwise harming my pretty good internals....

So in the future, I'm leaving Hydroxycut off the menu, and make a conscious effort to hydrate properly.

Just keep doing it. You've trained your body so poorly that it's gotten used to no sleep. You will eventually start to sleep more. It could also be a stress issue that keeps you from getting sleep. Or even a diet issue. Your body should comfortably sleep at least 7-8 hours.

I'm a natural insomniac, and find it difficult to sleep more than a few hours at a time. What works pretty well for me is melatonin.

aspirin has killed more people (ALOT MORE) than ephedra fat burner users.. and the thing is, they cant even really link that ephedra is the cause of death w/ the people that take them.. they just "assume" because, what else could it be?

these are some mistakes people make and could possibly jepordize themselves. granted, for the vast majority of people entering the market for purchasing fat burners, they dont know a single thing about a product, its ingredients, what effects it has on the body etc.

prime example. a guy who i've helped on another forum wanted to "boost" his energy before a workout.. he purchased a product called "XXX".. the lady/guy at the store wasnt really any help and said it was a good product.

he was so incrediably amazed at how effective it was at boosting his energy. he told me he was hyper for hours after taking it, even after his workout he was just goin ape with energy. so it got me thinking.. usually only ephedrine/ra products give you such a noticeable jolt.. i asked him if there was any in it, he said no and listed off the ingredients..

low and behold it contained 335mg of Mu Haung extract. which is EPHEDRA, which is equivalent to 26.8 mg of ephedrine.. and that is ALOT, especially since that was the first does he took!

ephedra/ine is a stimulant and should be loaded.. what i mean by this, is take 1 ephedrine/ra and 100mg of caffiene for your first few times.. if you dont notice any or HARDLY any effects.. bump it up to 2 pills.. same 100mg caffience dosage. so basically you are stimulating your body with a lesser does. and this will prolong the affect of ephedra/ine in your body. slighlty increasing the dose as you feel it doesnt have the same effect. but taking no more than 3 x 8mg ephedrine pills and no more than 200mg caffiene.

i have taken ephedra/ephedrine. i consulted a friend who has 6+ years schooling in biology, nutrition, nuroscience, chemistry, micro biology, implications for disease, supplementation.. and he KNOWS his shit and he got me to do what i said above.

another thing people dont do, dispite my friends credientials i went to see a doctor also, i got my heart and everything checked out, it was below normal in the "very good" range which was awsome and he said i wont have any problems if i use it wisely.

never use fat burners, "as directed".. taking like 9 pills a day is just ridiculous.

another thing people do with fat burners or ephedra especially.. they take it twice a day..

you MUST exercise (well you dont have to).. but why the hell would you take a such a stimulating substances and not do cardio or hit the weights? its no good for your body. its like taking a caffiene pills right before you goto bed, what good is it going to do?

ephedra/ine primes your body for weight lifting, it's like you already got a pump going, your mind is focused, your air ways are open.. there is no doubt you are going to get an insane workout when you use this product as directed!