So, it's time I finally started to use these.

As I understand it now, from what I can tell, when somebody posts something to a newsgroup like alt.bigmuscles.video, every newsgroup server that supports that particular newsgroup will download the new posting, and everything in it (like the vid clips).

Then, when somebody uses their NG software, they can see the new posting, and they download it directly from their newsgroup server, and the original poster or "master" alt.bigmuscles.video is totally oblivious to them, since it's now just a relationship between ISP and client.

So, some questions I have are:

1) Who actually is in charge of the master alt.bigmuscles.video? Surely somebody must be, for the NG servers to be able to check it regularly and see that it's got new content for their consumers.

2)question answered Presumably a NG server would have basically a carbon copy of alt.bigmuscles.video. If they do, and they've got a copy of all other newsgroups they support, wouldn't they require tons and tons of storage? Just crazy amounts of hardrive space (for the server, I mean)? (EDIT: I just read that yes, it does, but servers have settings to purge away old data, so that their storage space doesn't go crazy)

3) I checked a popular NG listing this morning and didn't see all that many posts. Is that because my NG server only got some recent ones out to me, and to really build up a list I'd have to subscribe, and then it just updates my client every time I sync, so that is how a big master list (on my end) is built?

4) Lastly (I think!), my ISP's NG server seems pretty good. I see that some public NG servers charge maybe $10/month for 10 gigs of bandwidth, but my ISP seems to charge nothing. My guess is because they've already downloaded the content from a newsgroup, and any bandwidth between me and them is merely localized non-internet bandwidth (straight from my machine to the ISP and back), so bandwidth is all but free, right?

5) Bonus question: xnews or agent, which of these should I use?

1) Who actually is in charge of the master alt.bigmuscles.video? Surely somebody must be, for the NG servers to be able to check it regularly and see that it's got new content for their consumers.


... NGs are a weird thing. They are kinda like shrimp in that they are stuck in an evoultionary niche... They're Old Skool kinda.

ANYONE can suggest a new newsgroup be created. If your NG admin thinks its ok (or its automated, or your run your own), then you get your own group. Other servers can choose to pick it up or not.
I know some commercial NG hosts have something like 100k groups or something silly... (maybe 80k or so).

Now, thats not to say that all are lawless. Some are what are called "moderated" and most of these will have the word moderated in their name somewhere i.e. alt.bigbiceps.moderated. Those have people who check the content, and generally have a MUCH higher signal to noise ratio then the un mod'd ones.

But, more to your point, there is not MASTER alt.bigmuscles.video group. Its just kinda like an agreement between servers that that "exists" at all.

misc.fitness.weights is a GREAT group, and you can read it free, and in a nice web format here:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=misc.fitness.weights&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&sa=N&tab=wg

There are different top level groups... (kinda like .com, .net, .org, etc for domains) and they are things like
rec
alt
misc
each one had kinda like a theme to it, but those are mostly bogus now.


2)question answered Presumably a NG server would have basically a carbon copy of alt.bigmuscles.video. If they do, and they've got a copy of all other newsgroups they support, wouldn't they require tons and tons of storage? Just crazy amounts of hardrive space (for the server, I mean)? (EDIT: I just read that yes, it does, but servers have settings to purge away old data, so that their storage space doesn't go crazy)


A little more info. If you start looking at commercial offerings, you will see terms like Completion and Retenition. These refer to how long the servers hold on to "old" data, and how much of it they get (I'm not sure HOW they manage to get more then they normally would, probably multiple servers they sync with).

I used to work for an ISP, and aside from our NG servers going down ALL THE TIME, we could internally see the stats on them, and some NGs were doing 10Tb transfers A DAY... nuts...
so it can be VERY expensive to run a good (meaning good retention and good completeion with lots of groups) server.

You can run a crappy one for free ;)

As for your thing about "Carbon Copy", thats not 100% accurate. If you look at the same group, on two differnt servers, you will see that posts are in differnt orders, and having ones that the other doesn't... its a web-type network, not a hub and spoke, meaning that servers connect to each other, and there is no "master" so, A might connect to B, THEN C, but C could have already connected to B, so things are in different ordres, etc.

its nuts


3) I checked a popular NG listing this morning and didn't see all that many posts. Is that because my NG server only got some recent ones out to me, and to really build up a list I'd have to subscribe, and then it just updates my client every time I sync, so that is how a big master list (on my end) is built?


No, most news readers have the ability to specify how many headers you want to fetch from the server. It might be defaulting to some absurdly low number in your client, like 500, or 1000...

A high traffic NG, on a server with good retention can have 100,000 headers, easily.



4) Lastly (I think!), my ISP's NG server seems pretty good. I see that some public NG servers charge maybe $10/month for 10 gigs of bandwidth, but my ISP seems to charge nothing. My guess is because they've already downloaded the content from a newsgroup, and any bandwidth between me and them is merely localized non-internet bandwidth (straight from my machine to the ISP and back), so bandwidth is all but free, right?


I've used quite a few. Right now, my ISP (comcast) has an agreement with GigaNews (one of the biggest), not bad, but only 1g a month, kinda lame. But it goes to show, that if a huge isp like comcast doesn't want to muck with NG servers, then they must be a pain in the butt (they are).

Thats partly it, but not totally. Its more complex then that. A lot of NGs carry copywritten stuff that the ISP can get in trouble for. Along with, it isn't "free", b/c you're tying up their equipment (well, not you specificly, but it adds up I'm sure). I'm not 100% on this last part.


5) Bonus question: xnews or agent, which of these should I use?
If you are on windows, Agent is great. for linux, you can't beat "Pan"

Hope that helped

It helped, thanks :)

So your ISP has a deal with giganews to give all of you 1 gig/month? I see that you can get an account with giga directly as well. How would I tell if my ISP has a limit on bandwidth? I guess probably call them...

I know a lot of people use these for nefarious activities, and I'm surprised that big name newsgroups would support a group that is all but totally full of illicit material.

Might not be of interest, but just in case: http://www.easynews.com

$9 a month, 10 gig of downloads, all web based. Supports download accellerator-type software as well (if you want to use that stuff). VERY nice interface, nice "global search" (searches ALL newsgroups nicely for all types of files -- image, movie, sound, archive, etc., displays any way you like, thumbnail mode or list, details you can sort by, etc.).

Anyway I think it's nice and it just makes things easy for someone with less technical skills (or laziness!).

ISPs are immune from legal action over the content of newsgroups. Just like, e.g., Verizon wouldn't get in trouble because Osama used a Verizon cell phone to set up 9/11. They're just the messenger.

For kicks, I just googled myself and found my first newsgroup post from 1993. But don't assume because it's old, it's old school! E.g., I downloaded a copy of the Olympics closing ceremonies in High Definition because stupid NBC broadcast that at something ridiculous like 3am. Watched it the next day.

Google groups (archive of newsgroups) is the first place I go when I have a software question. Very useful.

By "old skool" I'm refering to how the protocol (NNTP) hasn't died, or changed much in probably 20+ years. Its like FTP or SMTP, one of those (semi) simple, impossible to kill protocols. Personally, I love NGs, they have a Wild West feel to them.

ISPs can force a "limit" of sorts, by just not carring many groups, or having many articles on those groups.

I also found this link, not sure how technical it is, probably garbage:
http://www.learnthenet.com/english/html/26nwsgrp.htm

Giga is a pretty good provider, and there are places online where you can find reviews of providers.
this palce seems pretty cool:
http://www.smr-usenet.com/